Is BEE creating a class of parasites, living off our economy at the expense of workers and real entrepreneurs? Do South Africans resort to playing the race card when we have run out of other arguments? Will we become the next Zimbabwe if we fail to address transformation more rapidly?
The show is divided into five parts. Click on any part to play the video in your browser. Enjoy the show, and be sure to leave us your comments below.
TRANSFORMATION SHOW PART1
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TRANSFORMATION SHOW PART2
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TRANSFORMATION SHOW PART3
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TRANSFORMATION SHOW PART4
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TRANSFORMATION SHOW PART5
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I am in the business of IT consumable supplies.. I know for a fact in my experience over the last 15 years that you don’t need an IQ of anything above 20 to make money if you can play the race card. We have quoted and tendered for various government institutions and I know that we were the cheapest (inside info) but our quote was not accepted because of the current buddy buddy system in South Africa.
You don’t need a business, a good track record, or the know how, all you need is the right skin colour! This unfortunately does not grow the economy or create jobs since most buddy buddy systems is a one man show, who does not even have any employees or expenses. Stop playing the race card, it has been 15 years already.
Give all South Africans the same fair chance, not by colour but by performance. Otherwise we will just keep on losing qualified whites to other countries!
Redi, I am scared of what is happening to this beautiful country. We are reducing what is left of Africa to shreds. When we complain or bring ideas, we are told not compare this country to the so called civilised world.
20 yrs ago this country was even far ahead of some EU countries like Portugal but today even Vietnam and Thailand’s economies are better than ours.
Please let’s not allow this country to be another Zim. Zim’s case has nothing to do with transformation. It’s unfotunate that the SA people and media have bought this transformation issue about Zim.Let’s educate our kids and give them the opportuties they deserve not the company shares they didn’t work hard for. In Zim it was the issue of greedy and nepotism that destroyed that country. When they had finished with parastetals, what was left was to take from the easy targets – the white farmers. Those who were in exile in Zim can tell you that Zim’s problems started in the early 80s when Mugabe was butchering the Ndebeles. Because the economy was still sound, he din’t bother to grab the farms then. They know about the Willowgate scandal.In SA’s case, it’s greedy/corruption, political patronage and resersal racism that is destroying the country. The issues of service deliveries are real but, the very same people break into schools and steal whatever thay can lay their hands on. The Unions are out of control, The ANCYL is not talking about youth issues bot only interested in the succession issues have nothing to do with the youth and the SACP still celebrating their victory in Polokwane. The ANC is scared to tell these people where to get off. Cry our Beloved country. GOD serve SA.
Yes, at this stage Transformation has become nothing more than an accelerated, forced and one-side issue, that if really analysed, will become clear that it has become a form of forced reverse apartheid, instead of what it was meant to achieve. The uplifting the once disadvantaged people. People have simply been put into positions to fill the position, and the merit and qualification criteria ignored, due to the right skin colour according to transformation criteria. We are now sitting with people, who are not as incompetent as they now appear, and if only they had just been put in a lower post, been aided and educated, would have been excellent workers, but now are in posts which they know little off or nothing, which has resulted in a chain re-action of poor to non-service. Yes unfortunately the few who deserve their appointments are now also being affected.
To me transformation is not dealt with properly, that’s why after 15yrs we are still struggling. Very few people have benefited from this and only those who have connections at the top are happy and will encourage it to go ahead a bit longer. As a black South African and many will agree with me on this, we have even grown a perception of the so called BEE guys and girls in our communities. If the aim was to spread the wealth amongst all of us, we were not gonna see the difference between a BEE guy and an ordinary person in the street. But today in South Africa we still have people who go to bed hungry while the one man BEE guy takes home millions. Lets just stop everything and let everyone have the same opportunity in this country instead of few elites. We are sick and tired of politics on everything.
BEE has been the biggest downfall for our country and continent. It’s been a scam to hide behind – to cream the crop and to have an elitist group of superior beings who fully believe that they are above the law; above common business ethics and it has been the most disastrous decision taken in our nation. Understandably change had to happen and change had to occur; but at the expense and destruction of a once thriving country where opportunities could have been created for all individuals in all sectors of life – it has now become a handful who rape and pillage as they go along. All the money invested in this farsical tradition could have been well invested in excellent education processes; advancements in technology and development and incredible opportunity for national and international trade to pulsate through this continent. South Africa is a treasure and in 10 years time we are looking at a second Zimbabwe situation. change needs to happen – a definite review needs to occur and FAIR and HONEST business practices should be available for ALL individuals. More than ever, focus should be on South African citizens being given priority rather than every other foreign individual in terms of those crossing borders; those migrating etc.
There is enough gifting and talent in this country to be one of the most successful nations globally – BEE is not the only answer….. and the select few raping the system should be stopped now.
We are beginning to face the very issues were have tried to avoid for so long. We have come through a remarkable journey and now we are still talking about the issue of transformation. The issues of Racism, Transformation and BEE are intertwined. We have failed to deal with the issue of racism in an appropriate fashion and instead have chosen to leave it on the table and cover it up with a white table cloth. The consequences of these actions is that the tablecloth is stained and transformation and BEE have become a fruit salad that has leaving a bitter taste in most South Africans mouths. My question is: Have we delayed the likehood of a civil war by 15 years? and Who is most affected by these actions? From what I can see, the very same people who advocated for the country to move on this path have benefited and are now not offering any solutions. Don’t even talk about the institutional frameworks and bodies like the ANCYL not fulfilling their mandates – as far as I am concerned, this is a direct result from not dealing with the core issues back in 1994. We have created a monster which is spiralled out of control. The youth of this country who have come out of the 15 years of democracy are global citizens and understand & speak the global language. They adapt and fit in well and do not have the same sense of comradarie we had when we were fighting for Madiba to be freed and for Apartheid to be abolished. Nepotism; broadening of the skills gap; the same BEE fat cats benefiting from the capitalist country they have created for themselves; and the poorer becoming poorer; are real and will continue to grow if a certain portion of South Africans don’t deal with the underlying issues under the white tablecloth. How will it end? I don’t know. Is the unvoidable possibility of a civil war (unsure what form and shape it will take) finally raising its ugly head? Is this what will give us new hope and new strength to finally build the country we had in mind in 1994?
Transformation and racism are issues which we will have to continuously deal with in a much more vigorous manner. I am glad that you guys have created a much needed platform to tackle these issues.
In George Orwell’s ANIMAL FARM the creed that all animals are equal is corrupted over time to “all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.” It is a cynical way of saying that true fairness is impossible; invariably some individuals emerge with the power and motivation to gain an unfair advantage over others. Does this mean that if I had a different skin color things would have been much different? Romans 2:11 “For God does not show favoritism” because in His eyes we are all equal.
This does not mean that I have anything against white people in our country more especially since my mentor is white. In our country we have good white people like FW De Klerk, and at the same time we have the likes of the AWB leader, Eugène Terre’Blanche who recently decided to re-launch his party with an aim to bring back the olden day’s of extreme white supremacy.
Mr. Steve Bantubonke Biko once said “Africans you are on your own” and he went on to say “Being black is not a matter of pigmentation – being black is a reflection of a mental attitude”. In any event we have to make sure that we give an undivided attention to our dreams and priorities. If we start neglecting our priorities, no one will ever attend to our immediate needs.
The untold truth is that racism still dominates by far within some organizations in the private sector and hence our government needs to intervene as a matter of urgency.
Keep up the good work and looking forward to more of interactive debates….
Peace
Bane
BEE is just pure racism protected by law! Its the ineffective mans’ friend! It means that SA can’t compete on a global level or even offer decent services because BEE has created a weak link, therefore we all suffer.
Black or white,we are bound within the same society. Let us sbject our differences to debates and help ourselves find common ground. thami mthembu.morningside .durban
transformation is being much determined by the leading party. for they have made the transformation to suit themselves.
Even if ALL whites were replaced with black people, it will leave how many millions of black people unemployed? There are just too many “previously disadvantaged” people in SA and we’re ever increasing.
I loved the show today (13 November). Especially the Doctor who was the conveyer for the Dinokeng Scenarios (where can I find more information about her?). She was presenting logical dilemmas and pin-pointed mind-sets that are harming our country rather than building it up.
And thank you for reaching down to the lower levels of employment at the Post Office (who represent a great many institutions in our country) and letting them speak. If the Post Office was the winner, then what is going on in the companies who lost?
Another thing: we are very upset when people are put on suspension with their full salaries (Millions of Rand per year) in tact while a so-called-investigation is pending for years and years. We just get three warnings and then fired. If we feel it was unworthy or unjustifiable the CCMA (who is doing great work) investigates but we’re not getting paid while ‘investigations are ongoing’!
It makes me think of “All animals [people] are equal, but some are more equal than others,” from Animal Farm written by George Orwell and published in England in 1945. He was a Democratic Socialist. His story seems to be getting more and more applicable on South Africa’s current state! His story should be a warning to us! Only problem is, how can we do it differently? What would be the solution?
Let me thank you for hosting our organisation on what turned to be a riveting, enthralling and engaging show. This must rate as one of the few talk shows peppered with fireworks that I have been to in a long while and I think it is indeed the “Big Debate”.
Maupi Monyemangene
Media Liaison Manager; Productivity SA
Big Debate Team
Thank you for a most incisive program – just wish you could lengthen it – all of your topics! Issues are so complex they need to be more fully explored. Although I must say, while the Transformation debate is fully understood by our intellectuals and has probably become somewhat tedious , the person on the street watching the program, must be left behind by the overly academic language employed by some participants.
I was surprised by the confused rendering of Advocate Ngoako Ramatlhodi’s views and his intransigence in accepting that he was roundly trumped by the clarity of Dr. Ramphele’s arguments (what an incredible woman!). That irritated swinging of her elegantly shod foot and the occasional derisive smile made your show come alive. Loved it!!! Also, your other panelists : Pierre de Vos, Moeletsi Mbeki (what a courageous man) and the maligned Judge Kriegler, really illuminated the very real problems underlying the concepts of Transformation et al.
We need to talk through all these issues, no matter how painful they are. We will never attain Bishop Tutu’s vision of a Rainbow Nation, unless we do.
Thank you for your immense contribution. As my son would say in Afrikaans : “ETv. kook!”
It is highly disconcerting to hear people talk about BEE/transformation being ‘reverse discrimination’. Such people use the fact that it has been 15 years since democracy-what more do they (blacks) want? They (dissidents of the transformation agenda) are really unaware or perhaps even in conscious denial of how little things have changed in heavily patriarchal and lilly white corporate South Africa.
Talk to any ambitious young black professional in ANY industry and you will learn that much still has to be done.
South Africa is rated as one of THE MOST unequal of all countries in the world, and such inequality was DELIBERATELY designed by the former apartheid government to be along RACIAL lines. To be blunt: economic prosperity has a pale complexion (white) whereas abject poverty and squalor has a dark complexion (African). Therefore any attempt to redress this inequality has to, necessarily, take on a racial dimension-hence BEE.
If we are to be really honest, we should also rid our soceity of the notion of ‘PREVIOUSLY disadvantaged’ as this creates the VERY false impression that the African majority has arrived and has thus become currently advantaged.
Let it be said UNEQUIVOCABLY: the African majority of South Africa is still very much DISADVANTAGED. The wheels of change have VIRTUALLY NOT moved at all for most of us-SISA HLUPHEKA. That is a hard fact by any cursory look at SoUth Afrca’s socio-economics.
If there is something wrong with the BEE model of transformation, let it be attended to as a matter of urgency and let there be suggested alternatives that will NOT compromise the transformation agenda. But to call for its scrapping is absolutely laughable given where we are as a nation regarding transformation. Let not those who are fundamentally opposed to transformation capitalise on any shortcomings of the BEE model or any other transformation initiative of the state. They are being quite opportunistic…
South Africa will implode if the economic pie continues to grow and be enjoyed to the exclusion of the African majority. Growing inequality, especially along racial lines is the biggest threat to social stability anywhere in the world.
Regardless of race, a socially unstable South Africa will be a nightmare for all. We all have a vested interest in a prosperous country, so let us not seek to achieve and enjoy it to the exclusion of anyone-least of all the indigenous majority. Otherwise the bubble WILL burst-it really is a basic matter of fact.
Transformation must be strived for in whatever model deemed appropriate to achieve the redressing of economic inequalities that span centuries.
Whether the economic elite realise it or not, meaningful transformation is also in their interest. ‘Finish and Klaar!’
Change is inevitable, whether anyone likes it or not…
Hi Mzukisi Ndzipo,
What you say is what we know. What we’re adding is that the process seems to enrich only some of the “indigenous majority” and that’s unfair. Poverty doesn’t distinguish between skin colours. Neither does sickness and death. It just so happens that the majority is black. All the poor are suffering.
BEE is a great thing, but not the solution. As I mentioned in my previous reply: even if you replace ALL whites in ALL jobs in South Africa, it will still leave 34.67 million Africans in South Africa (http://www.statssa.gov.za/PublicationsHTML/P03022009/html/P03022009.html) So, does BEE solve all our problems?
What other transformation plans are there? I only know of BEE (sorry, I’m not a politician or academic, just an average-Jane born and bred in SA). My question is sincere.
At the risk of being petty and personal I wish to thank Yolanda for her reiterative response. I also wish to point to her that her opening line appears to border on condescension towards my person. What is redemptive of her indiscretion in that regard is her concession of her being an “average Jane.” It would be beneficial for her and others like her to strive to increase their cognitive content regarding this country’s current and past racial relations and broader transformation issues. An initial step in that direction would be a re-read of my initial response and a deep ponderation thereupon PRIOR to attempting to rubbish it in the manner she has attempted above…
There is no doubt that transformation is necessary in South Africa. And, I am sure that there are examples of it having been successful. However, it has ironically been delivered inequitably over the past 15 years. Firstly, affirmative action, BEE and associated tools of transformation have benefitted only a few connected individuals leaving the vast majority of South Africans with little benefit. These transformation tools have also become a form of social engineering which clearly hasn’t paid off when we look at some of our parastatal institutions. Affirmative action should be more than ratios and quotas – a crude one-size-fits-all approach to a far more complex task. It should address the unique situation within all fields and sectors within the economy. For example, the numbers of students graduating within a given profession should behaps be analysed and AA/BEE ratios within sectors revised based on the gender and race composition. Where there are sectors that do not refect the demographics of the country as a whole, efforts should be made to try build interest in that sector. AA is perhaps best addressed at our tertiary and training institutions where every effort can be made to provide skills and expertise to young South Africans no matter what their backgrounds. Standards should never be compromised but rather help should be given ensure that everybody can meet that high standard no matter what their background and circumstance.
Transformation is necessary. However, as a crude form of social engineering it will fail and that is a risk we should not be willing to take. I believe our future as a viable, economically stable democracy depends on it.
Thank you for the debate.
Apartheid was a systematic process. Small children were enforcing it.
Blacks owning land and live stock were forcefully removed from their land and families were separated when men came to the Cities to work in the mines. Therefore poverty amongs blacks was ochestrated it did not just happen. Yolanda please inform yourself of the history of Black people in this country.
Therefore to address the injustice of the past we need to use a systematic way to change the scale. When people in a marriage relationship are unfaithful to each other and the result of their unfaithfulness leads to divorce and illegitimate children, do not blame the marriage, deal with the people. Marriage institution is holy.Therefore when transformation seems not to work or benefit the majority just know that it is not the system but someone who is not doing what they are suppose to do. Transformation gives a voice to the voiceless and if properly practiced it has opportunitites for training both blacks and whites about their rights.